Area for general discussions, where people can rant and chat about anything.

New Other Engines

New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 09 Mar 2015, 16:27

Hey Skyline Users,
I am sure you have heard over the past week of the release of Unity 5 and UE4 released for free.
What i would like to know from you lot is:

Q> Have you used them?
Q> Why have you used them?
Q> What was it that got you to try them, the marketing, website, imagery, videos, tech showcases, GDC conference videos?
Q> What do you think skyline lacks that would cause you to use another engine?
Q> What is your opinion and where do you think we should improve or focus that would make you use skyline again?

We would love to hear all your thoughts and opinions.
I know its a strange topic, but we would like to know for our own reference and direction. We already know some of you are really into skyline and may not have even tried the new versions ( in which we commend you our loyal skyline knights :P :P )

Of course, we are aiming at the more entry level and hobbyist game developers, so it is a slightly different market.


Summary so far of improvements required stated by the posts:
  • AI - This seems to be the most common things across all posts.
  • Script Debugging (Started, partly done)
  • Networking
  • Procedural Generation (vegetation all the way to entities etc...)
  • Asset Generation
  • Questing, Story Builder & Speech System (Red engine for witcher series have a good take on this.)
  • 64 bit (this is now possible and is already under development again).
  • Multi Preset
  • VR - Occulus, Steam Vive and OSVR(Supports many VR systems)
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby AuShadow » 09 Mar 2015, 16:43

Hey, first of all yes I have used unity UE4 (was a subscriber), FPSC and FPSCR(now GameGuru). I am very much a hobby kind of Dev and just love to play around. UE4 is great for serious development but is a very steep learning curve and its the same with unity, mobile export makes unity tempting to a lot of people however (its the reason I first tries them but in reality it would be very unlikely that I ever release anything).

All that said SkyLine is my Dev home now because it's fun and easy to use, far easier then the big name engines and far more advanced than anything that's as easy or slightly easier to use. I for one recommend this engine over the others (but will still play with them every now and then just to see what I can do with each engine). But I am staying with this engine as my main because I have to say I just love this engine, the more I learn to do with it the better everything looks in it, keep up the great work guys (and gal I think ;)). And I'm sure the community is already spreading the word to try and get some more early users to further fund this awesome product
User avatar
AuShadow
Skyline Ensen
 
Posts: 129
Joined: 17 Feb 2015, 11:18
Skill: Great creative

Re: New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 09 Mar 2015, 16:49

great response and very encouraging :D thank you :)
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby StarFire » 09 Mar 2015, 16:51

Thank you @AuShadow for your kind and honest words. We will endeavor to make Skyline better and better so that the day will come when everything you will need for game development will be available in Skyline. :D

Yes on the Gal! ;)
Dream the Journey, Live the Experience!
User avatar
StarFire
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 18:50
Location: UK
Skill: Great creative
Skill: Programmer
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby Gtox » 09 Mar 2015, 18:44

I've looked at AAA engines in the past, and I spent many hours going through an extensive set of UDK tutorials, and while it was a load of fun, and the results that could be achieved were very impressive, I knew that there was absolutely no chance whatsoever that I, as a lone hobbyist, would be able to create a game with it. From what I've seen, Skyline seems to have the potential to bridge the gap between easy-to-use and powerful, and to become the Holy Grail of 3d engines (excuse the hyperbole, but I think that there are a lot of hobbyists like myself who long for such an engine).
The biggest problem facing single users/small teams is time - modern 3d games are made by teams of dozens or hundreds of people, and take years to make with multi-million dollar budgets, so I don't believe it's possible to compete with that, no matter what engine is used. However, there are three areas that could be worked on to narrow the deficit a bit - firstly, procedural scenery and asset generation (a la 'No Man's Sky). Secondly, decent stock AI (programming is a specialised skill, AI programming even more specialised. Not many hobbyists have the skills to create good AI). Lastly, some form of easy-to-implement story mode. The story is one area where a single individual can compete with a team of hundreds, and a good story can make up for a lack of polish in other areas. A gui system for creating conversations, for example. Whilst this can be done with scripting, it is extremely time consuming, especially if you want to have hundreds of conversations.
You're off to a very good start, though, so keep it up!
Gtox
Skyline Padawan
 
Posts: 96
Joined: 05 Feb 2015, 21:06
Location: South Africa

Re: New Other Engines

Postby lordalmighty1 » 09 Mar 2015, 18:51

I tried unity, didn't really like it not being able to script really is a big issue for that engine.. I would imagine the same for all mainstream engines mostly like ue4.

unity was ok but after a weekend spent doing a simple 2d space game (frustrating 2 days of coding lol) I gave up with it for a more hobby style engine, (gameguru) which after a year and a quarter I have left for this 1 lol..(skyline).

I think if after most of the hard work is done with the engine if the scripting sides of game making was looked at and supplied for an easy to select and use by all, it would outshine many other engines.
skyline has already a lot going for it so no worries there!!..
intel i7 7700 3.6ghz 1080ti 11gb vram 16gb ram 120gb ssd os drive 2tb hdd gaming drive 24" main monitor 21.5" 2ndary monitor skyline pro edition roughly 400+fps in editor...
https://www.twitch.tv/lordalmighty1
User avatar
lordalmighty1
Skyline Moderator
Skyline Moderator
 
Posts: 442
Joined: 02 Jan 2014, 12:13
Location: uk
Skill: Great creative
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby TattieBoJangle » 09 Mar 2015, 19:05

Q> Have you used them?
A>Just to mess about with as lets face it for a one man team it would take years & years to make any sort of game.

Q> Why have you used them?
A> I have used Unity, Unreal, Leadwerks just to see how they feel and preform i believe i will stick to Skyline.

Q> What was it that got you to try them, the marketing, website, imagery, videos, tech showcases, GDC conference videos?
A>Its all the rage with the fanboys ;) it seems if you don't use unity you are a sinner ;)

Q> What do you think skyline lacks that would cause you to use another engine?
A>For me it will always be scripts you can never have enough and would save alot of time if there are alot of pre made ones.

Q> What is your opinion and where do you think we should improve or focus that would make you use skyline again?
A> Already using it but i believe 64bit should be next 32 bit puts to many people of due to its limitations :)
Case: CM Storm Trooper CPU: I7 5930k X99 Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 Graphics: Asus GTX 1080 Motherboard: Rampage Extreme V x99 Ram: RipJaws DDR4 3000mhz Storage: x2 SSD Crucial 500GB + x5 2TB Hdd PSU: Evga 1500w OS: Windows 10
User avatar
TattieBoJangle
Community Manager
Community Manager
 
Posts: 858
Joined: 26 Jan 2015, 00:15
Location: United Kingdom
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Level Designer
Skill: Great creative

Re: New Other Engines

Postby StarFire » 09 Mar 2015, 19:15

Thank you for you honesty Guys and for your kind words :D

From what I've seen, Skyline seems to have the potential to bridge the gap between easy-to-use and powerful, and to become the Holy Grail of 3d engines

Can not stop grinning, such a nice thing to say thank you :D

Big Teams:
This is great to hear as we too, have found it to be the case; you need big teams to be able to really get somewhere with other engines, all members working their respective disciplines. This is very hard if you a multitalented artist with only a leisure amount of time to develop your ideas. Then you don't want your leisure time to become too much like work! It should be fun...

Easy Scripting:
We can code but don't want to spend our fun time working on scripts, so to have libraries of reusable Script type of components is a high priority, this should be realized soon with the visual mechanics editor. So this should help the AI non- scripters to make quality games without too much effort but not have every game working the same as everyone else's. Not a game in a box or mod but with the ease of a mod.
We will add focus to developing this area and with your help and requests this should be a fun task :)

We have planned for a quest editor which could also be designed as a story editor as these two features are closely related.

For the procedural side I think SP was planning to start with procedural vegetation/static objects. I think at a later date the soon to be in development level generator could also fill this gap by adding a procedural option. We will certainly keep in mind where procedural element can be added to the engine.

Thanks again this is really useful information for us to ensure we are developing Skyline in the directions you all want :D
Dream the Journey, Live the Experience!
User avatar
StarFire
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 18:50
Location: UK
Skill: Great creative
Skill: Programmer
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 09 Mar 2015, 19:19

couldn't have said it any better myself. These are some great opinions and really shows we are on a good track :D Thanks everyone! :)
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby TattieBoJangle » 09 Mar 2015, 19:20

vegetation +1 for that i did forget all about this lol to busy adding models.
Case: CM Storm Trooper CPU: I7 5930k X99 Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 Graphics: Asus GTX 1080 Motherboard: Rampage Extreme V x99 Ram: RipJaws DDR4 3000mhz Storage: x2 SSD Crucial 500GB + x5 2TB Hdd PSU: Evga 1500w OS: Windows 10
User avatar
TattieBoJangle
Community Manager
Community Manager
 
Posts: 858
Joined: 26 Jan 2015, 00:15
Location: United Kingdom
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Level Designer
Skill: Great creative

Re: New Other Engines

Postby Shando » 10 Mar 2015, 05:01

Q> Have you used them?
I have used Unity (and hated it). The forum is full of 12yo who get really upset when they're told to look things up for themselves! Also, I didn't like the idea of paying for every little thing that should have been included in the engine to begin with (Shiva3D allows you to export to all supported platforms at no extra cost).

I've also used UE and found it was just too much of a learning curve to be able to get to a reasonable proficiency in a reasonable time.

My main engine before Skyline was Shiva3D which I loved, but couldn't afford to upgrade to 2.0 (I was given a copy of the full version of 1.8 + subsequent upgrades entirely due to the "book" I wrote :D )

Apart from those, I've used all sorts of other engines over the years (mainly Java & C++ based), and found that most of them were OK for certain projects, but not great for others, hence why I started looking at Ogre (and found out about Skyline!!). Ogre seemed to be perfect for what I wanted as it has an active community, and was free (as were a lot of the extensions).

I've also got a copy of CryEngine, which I had some success with, but again, it took too long to work out how to do things (I don't have that much spare time ;) )

Q> Why have you used them?
I've been programming since the early 80s, so I am always on the lookout for new languages, software etc. I actually enjoy taking things for a test drive, even if I've got no real reason to!!!

Q> What was it that got you to try them, the marketing, website, imagery, videos, tech showcases, GDC conference videos?
As per my previous answer, mostly I've come across them simply by Googling. Though I must admit that CryEngine & UE were both via Social Media!

Q> What do you think skyline lacks that would cause you to use another engine?
AI (such as Steering Behaviours, Formation Motion, Behaviour Trees and Finite State Machines), Multiplayer (this is the main reason I couldn't do much with Shiva3D, as their server was an expensive add-on) & Script Debugging.

Q> What is your opinion and where do you think we should improve or focus that would make you use skyline again?
To be perfectly honest, the main thing that Skyline lacks at the moment is Script Debugging. No matter how easy you make the Scripting, there will always be a need to write a certain amount of code, and Debugging is essential (even for simple things like a comma in the wrong place, a misspelled function, or a colon instead of a semi-colon).

Regards

Shando
Alienware 17 (i7-4700MQ 2.4GHz 16GB GTX770M Win 10 64)

Love, Hope, Strength http://www.lovehopestrength.co.uk
User avatar
Shando
Skyline Moderator
Skyline Moderator
 
Posts: 492
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 22:35
Location: Kings Beach, Queensland
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Scripter
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 10 Mar 2015, 10:26

thanks for that response shando, with all these answers, it is beginning to paint a clear picture of what needs focused on into making skyline a no-brainer choice for anyone wanting to dabble with game development. I am surprised at the level of responses we have already have. Its a very good sign for us.

Script debugging is essential and we are looking into ways (thanks to some of your posts) that we can make this happen.
It seems everyone is in the same boat with the AI. It is going to be developed further very very soon though. ;)

Thanks again for the responses :D
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby epsilonion » 10 Mar 2015, 16:16

I totally agree with everyone here.

I used Unity and UE4, not on a serious note mind you just a play around.

Unity - my thought of unity are well I hate the workflow I hated the interface and I hated the learning curve.

UE4 - Loved the Blueprints Editor, Loved the workflow, Hated the learning curve.

Leadwerks - They sell it as a completed engine that's easy to use, yeah right, the scripts like the 3rd person and AI script they supplied was buggy as hell, the interface was OK, but it defiantly is not easy to use and for me too much coding to get started was needed.

Skyline - Love the interface, love that its module based, love the action editor and other editors, for me it is the True Easy to use engine.
the roadmap looks very impressive to me and that you have one and transparent about the development is excellent customer relations, also couple that with actively on the forums.. :D

Including Raknet (multiplayer) as part of the engine is a great move as well..

What could be done?
More bug fixing, More modules, more script (as I am a novice), documentation updating.

Apart from that I am very excited about this engine and happy the way things are going.
User avatar
epsilonion
Skyline Lead Moderator
Skyline Lead Moderator
 
Posts: 866
Joined: 26 Feb 2015, 11:51
Location: Hull, East Yorkshire, England
Skill: Business Manager
Skill: Great creative

Re: New Other Engines

Postby ant0N » 11 Mar 2015, 05:02

still miss the possibility to create preset of multiple objects.
Sorry for my English. :)
User avatar
ant0N
Skyline Moderator
Skyline Moderator
 
Posts: 415
Joined: 02 Nov 2012, 12:49
Location: Россия, Москва
Skill: Programmer
Skill: 3D Modeller

Re: New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 11 Mar 2015, 10:23

updated the list :)
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby StevenP » 02 Apr 2015, 21:36

SolarPortal wrote:
Summary so far of improvements required stated by the posts:
  • AI - This seems to be the most common things across all posts.
  • Script Debugging
  • Networking
  • Procedural Generation (vegetation all the way to entities etc...)
  • Asset Generation
  • Questing, Story Builder & Speech System (Red engine for witcher series have a good take on this.)
  • 64 bit (this is now possible and is already under development again).
  • Multi Preset


This list (and even its order) is excellent. The only thing I would add is VR support (the three main ones to focus on is Occulus, Steam Vive and OSVR (since this open source driver supports around 30 VR\AR devices and input control peripherals and is actually the first one I would like to see implemented since Steam Vive, for example, would be too expensive for someone like me.)

Cross platform is something I would love to see (iOS, Android, Max and Linux) but I think those should not be added until some of the more important features are completed.
User avatar
StevenP
Skyline Apprentice
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 07 Jun 2014, 21:19

Re: New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 03 Apr 2015, 11:21

I have updated the list with your additions.

Edit: I just tried to contact the OSVR company about the SDK and our engine, and see if we can get a headset :P
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby StarFire » 03 Apr 2015, 15:09

If we can some how get a VR headset then there is no reason not to have SKyline VR enabled ;)
Dream the Journey, Live the Experience!
User avatar
StarFire
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 18:50
Location: UK
Skill: Great creative
Skill: Programmer
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby Shando » 17 Apr 2015, 14:16

Hi all,

Just a quick note to let you know Craig Chapple has added Skyline to his list of "other game engines" on his recent post @ Develop:

http://deve1op.net/1aZe5ap

I know it's a fairly long list, but "any publicity is good publicity" :mrgreen:

Shando
Alienware 17 (i7-4700MQ 2.4GHz 16GB GTX770M Win 10 64)

Love, Hope, Strength http://www.lovehopestrength.co.uk
User avatar
Shando
Skyline Moderator
Skyline Moderator
 
Posts: 492
Joined: 06 Mar 2013, 22:35
Location: Kings Beach, Queensland
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Scripter
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 17 Apr 2015, 14:53

Thanks Shando :)
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 07 Nov 2015, 01:33

Been a while since posting on this topic :)
Looking at the list on the top, we already have quite a few of these now and have struck them out,

  • AI - Zombie, flocking, NPC's etc.. using StarFire's Scripts, antON's scripts and Shando's scripts.
  • 64 Bit - Introduced in V0.9.7
  • VR using OSVR - Introduced in V0.9.7.2
  • Multi Preset - Introduced in 0.9.x

Looking at the others like
Questing, Story Builder & Speech System (Red engine for witcher series have a good take on this.)
This is being handled by Shando as he already has a decent chat system with easy management of words and sentences all designed in the Editor Plugin system.

Skyline is getting there folks :D
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby epsilonion » 07 Nov 2015, 12:02

with 64bit working now level streaming should be an option too :D
User avatar
epsilonion
Skyline Lead Moderator
Skyline Lead Moderator
 
Posts: 866
Joined: 26 Feb 2015, 11:51
Location: Hull, East Yorkshire, England
Skill: Business Manager
Skill: Great creative

Re: New Other Engines

Postby SolarPortal » 07 Nov 2015, 14:15

we are planning in ways of loading levels better with zoning etc...
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Dev.
Please provide as much info as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860

Twitter: @SolarPortal
Instagram: @SolarPortal
User avatar
SolarPortal
Skyline Founder
Skyline Founder
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: 29 Jul 2012, 15:56
Location: UK
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: 2D Artist
Skill: Programmer
Skill: Level Designer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby RuskinF » 28 May 2020, 14:35

I have used UE in the past. But not as a fulltime dev work. I used it to learn the Engine and how to use it to best effect.
It has a steep learning curve. You need to be careful about what you want to achieve with it.
It has a steep learning curve.
The hype around it got me to try it once. It was good but not as simple as Skyline.
There is nothing that skyline lacks.
RuskinF
Skyline Novice
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 13 May 2020, 16:02
Skill: Programmer

Re: New Other Engines

Postby igor-black » 30 May 2020, 14:40

There after some tragedia, i am glad continue engine building proffessionalism as lifetime businness. in new generation of engine. years underfield development was finished successfully!

[mod removed link as advertising other engines]
User avatar
igor-black
Skyline Novice
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 Oct 2019, 09:37
Location: Ukraine
Skill: Programmer
Skill: 3D Modeller
Skill: Animator
Skill: Scripter
Skill: Level Designer


Return to Off-Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron