Help and advice for Installing Skylines Toolset

SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 03 Jun 2018, 18:42

Hello,
I was quite impressed with what I saw from Skyline (almost bought the non-Lite Skiline right away, but didn't ) at the end of may.

I have gone now through numerous installs, all in vain.

Problem: The moment I try to create a new scene or load an existing one,
I'm getting the "The application ceases to run" (or something to that effect, the german words won't help a lot here. I suppose) - popup from windows .
32 bit-Dependency walker simply hangs, too, without a red diagnostic,
64 bit DepWalk complains in red about
Error: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in an implicitly dependent module.
Error: Modules with different CPU types were found.
Warning: At least one delay-load dependency module was not found.
Warning: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in a delay-load dependent module.

This happens regardless of whether I'm using DX or OpenGL, and independently of whether I set the NVIDA GTX780 M or the Intel 4600 as the graphics card to use.

HW: Intel I7-4700MQ@2.4 GHz, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA 780M
SW : WIN 7 64 patches current, graphic card Drivers current, MS Defender as Antivirus .

Other SW (all running ok):
coppercube 5.7
S2 Engine 1.4.6 b9
Torque T3d
Neoaxis 3.5

Attached the DepWalk64 File

EDIT: (forgot to tell)
* Installed to various drives other than C:
* Ran it as a Administrator user
* Ran it explicitly with "Run as Administrator"
* Browsed the forum and found that somebody in 2016 seemed to have a like problem, and could resolve it by deleting the resource files. Did that too, (actually only renamed them).

Please help
BR
CJ
Attachments
Skyline Editor - Lite.txt
Actually a DepWalk64 File dwi chgd to .txt
(8.21 MiB) Downloaded 20 times
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby SolarPortal » 04 Jun 2018, 12:08

Hello,
First we would like to apologise for any inconvenience this has caused you and we will do what we can to help you find the problems and provide a fix if possible.
Also, nice work trying to debug the problem first and providing plenty of information.

We do our tests on Windows 10, but Windows 7 is supported.
However, windows 7 has had problems in the past due to DX11 which can usually be resolved by installed SP1:

This is an excerpt from a post to a user who used windows 7 and often had similar issues:
* Install the Platform Update for Windows 7: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/downloa ... x?id=36805 ( this gives DX11 version 11.1 )
* Update the CRT library for your version of windows: https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/hel ... in-windows
* Install the vs2015 x86 redist - i don't think this is required, but is the process i used: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/downloa ... x?id=48145
* Install the vs2013 x86 & x64 redist: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/downloa ... x?id=40784


I will install the lite version today and see if anything shows up. I find it strange that the Dependency walker is reporting x64 dlls loading into a Win32 app. But since the lite version is only 32bit, it should be run in the 32bit dependency walker.

Edit: I also notice that your german, so do you have non-ascii characters in your user name for your PC, as this can also cause problems at times.
Conceive, Quantify & Do!
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Please provide as much information as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby SolarPortal » 04 Jun 2018, 12:37

i have just tested the downloaded lite version on my dev pc on windows 10 and it seems to work, so it is something potentially hardware or OS related:

After a crash while loading, please go to the "$(install location)\Bin\Win32" and send the "Skyline_TechSupport.txt" and the "Skyline.log" as these may give a reason for the crash and help to debug the problem.
Conceive, Quantify & Do!
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Developer.
Please provide as much information as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 04 Jun 2018, 19:23

Thank you, SolarPortal.
Sooo....
like I already said, win 7 is on current patch level, that includes sp1 of course.
please see attched file screenies.rtf for screenshots on the OS level and nvidia level

the VC13 redistibutable x86 and x64 installed, claiming to repair the already installed one
the VC15 redistibutable x86 and x64 wouldn't install, since they found "another" version installed, those versions may have come with the Batman Arkham Games series which are also installed on this machine
The crt link only lead to one top level microsoft web page, it is probably void

the dx11.1 upgrade wouldn't install, because it - as it stated - is "not for my machine"

I produced the logs before I installed the installation of the redist packages and after.
Those from before are respectively renamed, the standard named logs are from the crash after installation.

I could also provide a log created with sysintenals' procmon, restricted to the skyline editor, to see failed attempts to open or read files (but what I saw was rather unconspicuous, so, I'll only send them if you need them).

I could additionally let it run under ollydebug, to get more information, if that is ok with you, you
Attachments
Skyline.log
after redist inst
(41.42 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
Before_Skyline_TechSupport.txt
before redist_inst
(3.79 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
Before_Skyline.log
Before redist inst
(41.42 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 04 Jun 2018, 19:32

Can only upload 3 files, so I'm trying another reply
the screeenie.log is actually an rtf containig screenshots of the win7 sys and nvidia specifications

Thanky you for your help-
CJ
Attachments
screeniet.log
sys / gfx attributes' screenshots in rtf
(3.45 MiB) Downloaded 18 times
Skyline_TechSupport.txt
after redits inst
(3.79 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby SolarPortal » 04 Jun 2018, 19:51

Thank you for the detailed information. I will try to investigate into this issue tomorrow and set up the older windows 7 PC so i can test similar aspects.

It doesnt seem to have got past the clearScene that happens when a new scene is loaded. So i think its something to do with the rendering rather than the interface. However, i will see what i can do tomorrow and report back to you :)
Conceive, Quantify & Do!
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Developer.
Please provide as much information as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 05 Jun 2018, 05:38

Some more information :
Ollydebug fails after loading 90% of modules/dlls because it loads a 188bMbyte Table
Xdb32 Reports a dozen or so DEP / Access violation Errors
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby SolarPortal » 05 Jun 2018, 12:07

ok, so i set up my older windows 7 pc 64bit and the free version is working as expected..
so this begs the question, what dependency is missing from your system.

Will continue to look into this.

Does ollydebug save debug files that can be opened and read on another pc?

The 188mb table could be the resources loading in... not too sure atm.

EDIT:----------------------------------------------------------------
One thing to try to ensure the renderer is working is to not load a scene and just click off from the start screen in which you should just see a blue background colour.

So to test this:
* Load skyline and do not press new scene or load a scene.
* Then press this button:
temp.png
temp.png (26.47 KiB) Viewed 488 times


Does it crash? If it doesn't then it means the renderer is fine and its more likely that a file access is being denied, perhaps the user library which is stored in "C:\Users\$(User)\Documents\Skyline Game Engine\Asset Library" or elsewhere.
If this does crash, then something is not compatible with your setup, it seems like you are running an optimus card which are known for causing lots of little issues lol :P

I really want to find this bug and fix it so it means more compatibility across different hardware. :)
Conceive, Quantify & Do!
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Developer.
Please provide as much information as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 05 Jun 2018, 17:04

Hi Solarportal,
well, the render seems to be working alright.
I'm getting a light blue workspace with a skyline lite version Logo in the lower left corner and two gadgets that I can operate, e.g., I can call up the Translation Utiliy

Under Ollydebug, the attached log "log.txt" was produced

"Unbenannnt.png" is a screenshot of ollydebug when the 191 MB data table overflow occurs
Interestingly enough, it has increased from 188MB to 191 MB since yesterday, and it only occurs on the first run
"Unbenannt2.png" is a screenshot when the program repeatedly runs into access violation errors.
I m unable to provide dependency walker 32 output, since once it starts collecting, it simply hangs after a while or else when any button or so is pressed.
Attachments
Unbenannt2.PNG
screenshot after pressing load scene
Unbenannt2.PNG (120.51 KiB) Viewed 485 times
Unbenannt.PNG
screenshot when 191 MB overflow occurs
Unbenannt.PNG (227.75 KiB) Viewed 485 times
log.txt
olydbg log
(46.25 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 05 Jun 2018, 17:27

Hmmm sorry for not anticipating that PNGs would be shown immediately.

and
there is no "C:\Users\$(User)\Documents\Skyline Game Engine\Asset Library"
only "C:\Users\$(User)\Documents\Skyline Game Engine\UserSettings\AssetLibraryProfile00.ini"
with the following content:

#Skyline User Asset Library Locations
# * Note: Do not manually edit this file. Please use the editor settings instead.
# * Order of libraries matter here as they are loaded in the same order.
# Lower libraries are last to be checked in resource searches.
# * Skyline will manually add the base system library to the bottom of the stack for fallback resources.
# * Skyline will manually add a project (if loaded) to the top of the stack for first resource searches.
# * The last true / false is to enable or disable the library from loading.
# * Disabling the System Library may cause instability.
# * Proper usage of the syntax is necessary for correct parsing.
#==========================================================================================
System Library Enabled|true
UserLib|A:/SkylineLite/UserLib|true

Drive A: is formally correct, it's not a Diskette but a regulat NT-Partition
BUT
this seems to be a remnant of the very first install, which obviously never got updated in subsequent installs.
The current installation is located in D:\Authoring\Skyline
On the other hand, there is no UserLib directory at all in the current installation path, so, I wouldn't know what to update it to manually.
Best regqrds
CJ
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby SolarPortal » 05 Jun 2018, 19:11

yes, the idea of the user library, is to set it once and then every install after will continue to use the same setup which saves you time when uninstalling and reinstalling. You can change and remove library locations from within the engine's editor properties found in the File Menu.

If your up for it, its good news that the renderer is working, so i can set up a custom exe that has some extra information and send it to you to see where on the scene load it is actually crashing.

Do you use discord because we can live chat in PM and screen share if needed, and since your in germany your only 1 hour or so ahead of us.

I will setup an exe and get it sent to you in PM on the forum here though :)
Conceive, Quantify & Do!
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Developer.
Please provide as much information as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 06 Jun 2018, 11:07

Hello solar , yes, I am willing to proceed with you furher. No experience with discord, though, need to check it out. Only, I am available usually after 5 p.m. MESt, and currently, I am plagued having to perform daily hospital visits, so it is going to be much later.
Let us try the debug kernel, please.
Would it be helpfull to reveal what other programs are running, and which services I have set to not run ?
Best regards
CJ
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby SolarPortal » 06 Jun 2018, 12:59

Hello, Great to hear this :)

Did you see my PM on the forums here, if you look in the top bar of the site you should have 1 new message and it has the new exe :)
Conceive, Quantify & Do!
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Developer.
Please provide as much information as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 06 Jun 2018, 17:06

Hello SolarPortal,
believe it or not, the new exe seems to be running fine, at least on first sight.
I could load the hilly level with the cute jeep and drive it to my heart's content.
Basic action, like moving the car in the editor, also works well, for example.
I will of course try more when I find the time.

Now the not so good news:
compiling is greeted with no error but about ten warnings, mostly about missing materials.

Running the compiled game hangs/crashes it with a diagnostic, that "the application asked to be terminated in an unusual way"
(or the likes) followed with much the same standard pop-up window (".... ceased to run ...") the heretofore editor showed.

Since the scene is compiled to its own exe, this at least _could_ have the same reason, because I think your adaptions for the editor won't necessarily propagate to the engine's compiled produce; if so, we may have hit on something substantial that may occur on other windows 7 PCs, too.

So, thank you for the great engagement you showed to solve the problem.
let me confirm I'm further willing to help to get to the botttom of the problem, if you want me to.

What I am going to tr now is to see how easy or troublesome it will be to import a bunch of specific models into skyline, always a hard part when moving over to another game engine, as everybody knows. If that works out halfway well, it is most likely that you have won a customer willing to pay for what he's getting ( although, being a hobbyist only, I recommend to not order your new Ferrari right now)

Best regards
CJ
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby SolarPortal » 06 Jun 2018, 17:25

Well, thats good news that it runs on your system but the bad news is the file was not fixed because all that was added was some log outputs which appear to have made it run smoother. One thing it does sure up though, is that something is allocated to quickly, leading to a crash, unusual but bugs sometimes are lol

i could always compile the app with debug information, and then you send a crash dump file. That would then be able to be imported into our IDE and find the source of the crash.

What vram does your gfx card have?

So the problem certainly needs looked into and i too will be happy to find the real cause.

As for the end game, yes, this is a known set of issues and is due to the last update. I will be looking into this over the week.

We would be happy to have you as a customer, and on buying the ferarri, that will be in a few years haha lol :P

Ill think of what we can do and then set up a new exe and send you when ready, but could be tomorrow as i am hunting some bugs down elsewhere too, at least you can trial skyline while i figure something out :P
Conceive, Quantify & Do!
Skyline Game Engine - Lead Developer.
Please provide as much information as possible when asking for help.


Specs: OS: Win 10 64bit, CPU: Intel i7 3770 3.4ghz x 4 core(8 threads), GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, Ram: 16gig DDR3, Windows on 250gb Samsung Evo 860
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Re: SkylineLite installs, but dies on loading anything

Postby Captn. Jinguji » 06 Jun 2018, 20:46

Hi SolarPortal,
yes, I am aware that adding debug info or even only increased string handling sometimes may pamper sections of memory so that access faults become hidden.

The nvidia 780M has 4GB dedicated GDDR5 RAM at its disposal. THe machine is basically a MSI GT70 barebone based clone.

And yes, take your time, - or rather: use it to remove problems others have now, I'm sure I will profit from that indirectly, too.

I'll be busy for a quite a while playing with skyline in what little spare time I have, but I think I can already say I like what I am seeing in terms of handling/user interface. Basically, I have 3 or 4 projects in mind, partly with prototypes already attempted in other engines. Looking forward to try them in skyline.

So let's see what progress can be made
Best regards
CJ
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