Rendering enhancement

[SpiderMack]

Hi,

You can find some overview below, Skyline looks bland and tweaking roughness and metal sliders does not allow to get accurate to original material, while Unity basic shader looks accurate out of the box.


Also why Skyline propose two sliders for roughness and for metallic ? (Unity have only one and most of the time you don't need it)


I think it's not Gen2 until Skyline gets accurate physically rendering , i hope it will get better graphics before it's release.

[epsilonion]

Its a good idea to have a slider for metalness and roughness to get the look that you want, it offers more control to the user. besides there is 2 workflows, metal and specular (selectable at the top left of the material editor..

I use DDO (Quixel suite 2) a lot and I find that Arnold is the best profile to use and export for skyline, UE4 profile gets close but not as good as Arnold.. where as unity well blah, never been a fan of unity.. lol

on the original it looks like theers rust? with the redish colour but not showing on the skyline one and the metal edges on the skyline one looks about right where they isnt no rust on the original.

have you tried altering the brightness of the albido in skyline and changing the colour as the colour seems to give the texture a tint in engine.

What workflow are you using in Skyline?

[SpiderMack]

[TattieBoJangle]

Hi m8 if you want to pm the model and textures we can have a look and see what needs done

[SpiderMack]

Yep , you can download it and use it for any purpose or prototyping.

[TattieBoJangle]

Hi m8 had a look at it and the model its self is proper broken the "normals" after fixing the model you get more or less the same results as 3d coat I am using 4.8.03 only so much skyline can do with stuff like this







You can also change the reflection by changing the cubemap

[SpiderMack]

I used the same model in Unity without having to change normal
Perhaps FBX export would have been better for Skyline.

I can see on your Skyline picture :
1 ) normal map is like inverted and rust detail and colors is almost gonna (like Unity)
2) The grey piece has lost all details (roughness parts and color).
3) the reflective parts are more white than a reflection using environment map

Unity interprets better metal rendering, but looking closer the result is similar to Skyline
While it looks a little better in UE4.
I think 3D Coat export has some issues or imprecisions for 3D engines


UE4 using 3D coat textures


3D coat


3D coat exporting is not good as reference, textures are loosing details and roughness/metalness grey pictures does not reflects 3D coat rendering.

I will remake the example painting and exporting it from it in Substance.

[TattieBoJangle]

[SpiderMack]

I used Substance Painter and Unreal export, but there is some sort of difference because of environement map is not exactly the same , UE4 has post effects and anti aliasing also.
But it's too metallic in UE4, the rounded part for example is too much metallic compared to original whatever post effects.


Adding post effects in Substance approximate UE4 in game with enought contrast up (I'll try in Skyline to match that result)
And rounded part is still less metallic in Substance.



If you want to test with the new set of textures you can download them here :

[TattieBoJangle]

Yeah Substance Painter is the same and gives people just as much trouble you can see the difference in them all they have all the toys to make it look great but it would be more realistic if they stuck to some sort of universal standard.

[SpiderMack]

Yes , and Skyline gave finally not bad results about metallic


what is annoying is the metallic slider that needs to be almost to max to get the more accurate possible material look.

What matters is to get some workflow that works , i tcould be pre adjusted sliders or values in material editor, or some material inherance where your new material type would have some pre made values multiplier to textures inputs adapted to substance paniter for example.

[SpiderMack]

I got good results with Substance export to Skyline.
Next is to get Anti aliasing, Tone mapping, DOF in Skyline as some essential features really missing (animation functions and prefabs)

[TattieBoJangle]

[epsilonion]

Dont forget that each program uses tangents differently, Substance painter and UE4 use the same method of handling tangent space.

I am not sure how Skyline handles tangents but I would try exporting in different profiles to see what works the best with Skyline.

I have been looking at the videos surrounding substance painter and it looks like an amazing program and considering getting it myself..

Try arnold profile as I have had good results with this profile in other painting programs..

You can always make your own export profiles in substance painter ..

Along with what tattie says about been in development and unfinished at this time, if you experience any crashes or bugs you can make videos of them and post them to get them fixed before more features are added..

[SolarPortal]

Very valid comparisons @TattieBoJangle.

Its quite clear that none of the engines have out the box accuracy with either of the 2 products.
This is all due to some factors:
* Reflection maps: Are they high rez images like in skyline and unreal or are the blurred like in 3dcoat. Are the colours matching between the engines, a whiter sky will obviously produce whiter reflection whereas most of those reflections are blue.
Take note of the 3d coat IBL map too.. its using a lot of white spots in the image which is how the model ends up with the white streaks across metal.. this is common seen in car games such as forza in their indoor garages.
* Lighting is not the same, angles are different, brightnesses are different and all have different speculars
* None of the engines or modelling software use identical shaders, so there will never be an identical match.
* Albedo levels of the material also need to match, if unity and unreal only use for example use a grey, then skyline will be needing to match that from its material albedo/diffuse brightness.

But from what i have seen, skyline looks as good as any of the others in regards to quality of the model..

On topic of the dual slider, skyline should automatically set the metalness slider to full 1 (full slider) if a texture is used, same with roughness as when the settings are at 1 and using a texture, then the texture dictates where the roughness or metals are which is then the same as the other engines.

All in all, i don't think there is too much difference between the engines apart from renderer differences and as you say AA. but as tattie mentioned, you have full control of texture filtering...

[SpiderMack]

[SpiderMack]

[SpiderMack]

[TattieBoJangle]

[SolarPortal]

also, dont forget the mesh merger, it doesnt work for dynamics, but its useful for merging multiple meshes into 1.

Clipboard Image.jpg (30.23 KiB) Viewed 65788 times

[SpiderMack]

[TattieBoJangle]

You mean this ? so its not prefabs you are after what you are looking for is the ability to select the folder and it selects what is inside as this is what skyline uses instead of parent nodes

[SpiderMack]

[SolarPortal]

[SpiderMack]

Very nice picture (the tire needs to have lot of roughness )
I checked , it's again a slider i missed