Skyline Gen 2 v0.9.8.9 Peeve Issues [Solved]

[Olander]

[SolarPortal]

[Olander]

Hi SP

I am running 64bit Win 7 SP1

I saw most of those links but re-read them again. Those are not the issue. I still do have an issue with Blender flipping out Aero in very similar fashion. You can read here....the information is really tough to find though. What I did find was that the new nVidia drivers were made to accommodate some new features and Blender was not updated for this and nVidia did not make a fallback from it either. Looks like any Bit Depth >32 disables Aero
Link => https://developer.blender.org/T49215

My laptop has a GTX660M and does not have the same issue and the driver is older. I did not install Gen 2 to it though to see. I still have my GTX750ti which had none of these issues as well and had the older very stable 368.81 drivers.

There was the obtuse reference to the 'infamous' ntdll.dll corrupted file that evidently does this. Not sure why Gen 2 would do anything to this file though. I had other software installed in similar time frame so no idea really. Some services start just fine though. Hate computers.

The UE4 forum posting is not it but has a great joke in it at the bottom.

So here is what I will do.
- I will try the slimmed down version to see if it happens again.
- I will then remove the nVidia drivers and put in the 368.81 version (this does support GTX1060). See if the issue is still there.
- If the issue is still there then I will try the GTX750ti and see if this resolves it.

I'll give feedback here.

[SolarPortal]

Thank you for helping test this

[Olander]

Tests done.

- Gen 2 slimmed down did not create the issue. This also includes OpenAL not causing the issue. So something in the downloaded files is causing the issue.

Since you are mucking about with environment variables. I decided to try something.
- I installed a simple program then tried to Uninstall it. It appears something with the Appdata folder...in this case the Temp folder showed all the attributes greyed out...check boxes were checked but it was all greyed out. So I created a C:\Temp and changed the system settings paths for the temp & tmp to this new folder. The uninstall worked fine.

Some of the software is specifically mapped to the Appdata folder which seems to been have changed somehow. These particular software are having trouble setting their file settings and starting services. I use Teamviewer heavily so that I can remotely control my Desktop/Laptop from 1 desk. I have had v12 for some time now and this is one of the software that changed after Gen 2 was installed.

Tracking this down is like hunting through a spider web inside a spider inside a spider web.

So what I am left with now is that the Appdata folder has been changed...so now time to try to figure out how to Unchange it.

I shall get back with more once I know.
Cheers
O

[SolarPortal]

Skyline once run does use the appdata folder for storing downloaded files and updates. But unless the software is ran, then this cant generate a problem. Even Gen1 uses the appdata folder and the code is pretty much the same for those features in Gen1 and Gen2.

The cut down installer is pretty much identical except for it does not download the zip from the server to extract. This means the appdata folder is not used for this unless uninstall information is stored there somehow.

I did see the appdata folder being a problem for some people when i was researching earlier. Something about admin permissions causing problems. One thing people did mention was dropping the uac settings to allow access for yourself.

[Olander]

Right. I did the UAC closure. I have almost everything back but still some strange Appdata folder issues. Something wrong inside or user account or whatever.

Might be a coincidence on the Appdata folder. So let us chalk it up to that.

This Win 7 operating system is a really long term install now. With all the software added and removed it may be time to simply move up to Windows 10 (kicking and screaming ). Most everything supports it now so may not be a bad thing to do. I think rig may be simply too clogged up and broken/flaky at this point.

The only other thing is the Aero from the Gen 2 standard install. This would be appropriate for Windows 7 stalwarts like myself. The only issue is that Blender only swaps the Aero Desktop when it is running. Gen 2 swapped it while it was installed. Only Uninstalling Gen 2 got the Aero Desktop back.

Well...time to get to it then.

[SolarPortal]

Have you tried installing the full download version again, just in case it was a system fluke that made it fail?
Other than that, i'm not too sure and i do agree that after a long install time with OS's they tend to get issues that obstruct other things working.

[Olander]

So before I went into Win 10 installing I removed as much Gen 1 & Gen 2 as I could find. I did a CCleaner of registry and cleaned out all the junk from everywhere (I do this weekly in any case).

- Then installed Gen 2 only and it cause Aero to do the same.
- I then installed Gen 1 on my Laptop and it did not require a reboot (as prior on both of these computers).
Installed to => C:\Skyline

Since I was having some performance issues with some other software and this nasty services issue I cannot solve I am just going to do a clean install and convert the desktop into Win10 Pro.

Thanks

[uk-stryder]

in the past when my customers complained of this happening it nearly always chalked up to not enough system ram and windows always bloody decides to drop aero first. There is a way of stopping windows doing this but that option tends to pop up once and never be seen again lol.

Also AMD processors can get a little funky, how old is the processor? programs such as blender and any 3d package maybe calling a function that isn't supported.

[SolarPortal]

We have had all copies of gen2 running on win 10 quite well. Its a shame with win7 sp1 not working.

Hope it goes well for you

[epsilonion]

This is My setup and it works fine.. works great with my AMD..
I can not remember what OS I have on my laptop will check tomorrow its rather win 7 or 8 can not remember.

Operating System
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

CPU
AMD FX-8150 27 °C (8 Core processor)
Zambezi 32nm Technology

RAM
16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 669MHz (9-9-9-24)

Motherboard
ASUSTeK Computer INC. M5A78L-M LX V2 (AM3R2) 40 °C

Graphics
ASUS VS238 (1920x1080@60Hz)
2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (Gigabyte) 33 °C

[SolarPortal]

Hi Olander, A user of gen2 has recorded whats its like installing on windows 7 for them and it all seems ok.

Caption: Thanks to TattieBoJangle for providing this video

Hope this helps show that the software is safe and that it may be an issue with your pc which the reinstall or OS upgrade will hopefully get around Good luck

[Olander]

uk-stryder
16GB of RAM. No issue with RAM at all. Thanks for the thoughts.

Aero is being disabled by something in the software configuration. Windows 10 does not have Aero. Perhaps one reason why MS went the way did for compatibility? No idea really. As stated in my posting nVidia udated its drivers to carry the 64bit depth of the latest technology in graphics (DX12 feature?). In any case, software that uses 64bit mode must explicitly use 32bit as to flip the nVidia drivers into 32bit mode. Blender 2.77a uses 32bit mode (as it should) but does not handle the new nVidia driver technology. The posting above has the fix for it and the fix will be in the next version of Blender.

I remember many graphical programs not even working in Windows 10 for some time after release. Probably related. Only guessing here or perhaps they are 32bit programs which put Windows 7/8/10 in 32bit modes. Again, mostly guessing from experience.

The video is appreciated but the Aero in the video already has the transparency not set correctly (by default). That is what the end result is when Blender or in this case Gen 2 is doing to the Desktop. Basically the software is removing the 'Glass Effect' of the Aero feature.

Look, I am not stating the software is necessarily unsafe. It did not crash the computer and Skyline opened fine. We agreed that perhaps messing with the environment variables did something by coincidence because this install has had a lot of software changes over the years...who knows what is left residually 'Under the Hood'.

In any case. I am not arguing about some galactic nemesis in the form of Gen 2 Just stating the facts of what happened when I installed the Gen 2 software (as specifically asked to do). I really do not like software, especially a game engine, requiring a restart of the operating system. It makes me think that something went on under the hood....makes me want to try to figure out what and why. Just throwing that out there.

As a test I took a picture of my laptop desktop before Gen 2 and now currently installing Gen 2 on it (crosses fingers). I will post the 2 pics when it is done (laptop is on different nVidia drivers 368.81). The desktop is doing updates and such on Windows 10 so I will put Skyline back on it.

[SolarPortal]

[Olander]

[SolarPortal]

Good to hear that it was not a replicable bug and just the newer drivers at fault. I am always skeptical about updating the drivers as they never seem to go in smoothly lol

As for windows 10, its an alright OS, but like all windows OS's it has its issues and problems that it can cause but glad to hear you are liking the upgrade

We have wanted to remove the Env vars for some time due to the fact they will only work after a restart but we probably got this habit from compiling libraries all the time lol Registry entries will be a better option and that will allow the restart to be removed

[Olander]

Just a quick update to this.
- Windows 10 Desktop has not issues with Gen2 at all. Works well.
- Windows 7 368.8 nVidia drivers are not showing any issue at all either....working well.

I have since returned to Gen1 until Gen2 is a little further along. There are quite a number of Lua scripts to create which will take enough time for Gen2 to be a bit more polished.

Thank you for working through this.

[SolarPortal]

That good news Olander that Gen2 is working well on the OS's

May i ask what issues you had with gen2 to move back to Gen1? Basically, what areas do you feel need to be more polished.

Thanks for updating this thread

[Olander]

Well...mainly right now Gen 2 is difficult to prototype with since the terrain can crash the toolset. This is a known issue with the development cycle so not a real bug.

The scripting seems very stable though....no crashes at all. The issue with scripts is that there has to be a testing scene to test things moving around and communicating. Usually done on a terrain....umm...DUH...I should be able to use a mesh to test on. Just using cubes and spheres in any case while scripting.

Thanks! haha!

[SolarPortal]

aha! No worries, the terrain is very close now to be releasable in Gen2 for its first version; just taking a breather at the moment to regain ones self lol

Currently, i am trying to advance the visual GUI for Gen2.

Yes, scripting in Gen2 is much more stable as we found out what caused so many errors. However, i am sure there are still more to fix.

Anyway, have fun developing

[StarFire]

Ah yes cubes and spheres, my best friends lol
I use the basic geo for much of my mechanics development as you tend to focus more on the specific mechanics, plus the scenes load faster, only use characters and specific items in a proto state if required